Discipline

[NTChristian]

I have yet to have one single advocate of physical discipline make any effort to answer these questions:

Deuteronomy 25:3 states that when an adult is to be subjected to physical punishment, i.e., whipping, he is to receive no more than 40 lashes.

So, if God imposes a limit on the number of times an adult can be struck as punishment, why did He not impose a limit on the number of times a child can be struck as punishment?

And if God commands us to use physical force on children in order to discipline and punish them, why did He not set any standards for when such physical force is to be used? Why has God left it up to individual adults to decide how their children are to be disciplined and punished with physical force knowing that no two adults will use the same criteria on all children and no single adult is likely to apply the same criteria all the time to the same child?

If God is a God of justice, why was He so lax in creating a standard for hitting children?

And why should anyone take parenting advise from a man (King Solomon, the supposed author of the Book of Proverbs) who had a thousand wives and concubines; worshipped rocks and was such a tyrant that he drove his subjects to rebellion and thereby deprived his son of the son’s rightful intact inheritance, i.e., a united kingdom?

The Hebrew word that that the King James Bible translates as “rod” can also mean club. So are we supposed to club our children when they misbehave? And what is the definition of “misbehave”? What happens when two adults, say a particular child’s mother and father, cannot agree on when their child is misbehaving?

I was emotionally and physically abused as a child by non-Christian parents.  I take strong exception to anyone who hits children- especially anyone who manipulates the Bible to justify their action.

[Bob]

 

Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.

Now what does bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord mean to you?

ειρήνη
Bob

[NTChristian]

Now what does bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord mean to you?

First of all the child must fully know that you as the parent will always see to it that he will have food on the table, a roof over his head and clothes on his back.  If the child cannot trust the parent for his basic material needs, then the child cannot trust the parent at all, and if the child does not trust the parent, then the child cannot be expected to accept discipline from the parent.

Next the parent must earn the child’s respect.  If the child respects the parent, then the child will naturally wish to please the parent and will naturally accept discipline from the parent.  If the parent has the child’s respect, the parent will not have to use physical force on the child.  But if the parent is unworthy of the child’s respect, then no amount of physical force will accomplish anything other than earning the child’s enmity.

[Bob]

Now what does bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord mean to you?

First of all the child must fully know that you as the parent will always see to it that he will have food on the table, a roof over his head and clothes on his back.  If the child cannot trust the parent for his basic material needs, then the child cannot trust the parent at all, and if the child does not trust the parent, then the child cannot be expected to accept discipline from the parent.

Next the parent must earn the child’s respect.  If the child respects the parent, then the child will naturally wish to please the parent and will naturally accept discipline from the parent.  If the parent has the child’s respect, the parent will not have to use physical force on the child.  But if the parent is unworthy of the child’s respect, then no amount of physical force will accomplish anything other than earning the child’s enmity.

Then consider this that Christ calls all of us His children and He tells us that the leader must be a servant.

John 13:14 "If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. 15 "For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you.

Now go back to Eph 6:4 ....bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.. You are your child's teacher are you not?

[NTChristian]

Now what does bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord mean to you?

First of all the child must fully know that you as the parent will always see to it that he will have food on the table, a roof over his head and clothes on his back.  If the child cannot trust the parent for his basic material needs, then the child cannot trust the parent at all, and if the child does not trust the parent, then the child cannot be expected to accept discipline from the parent.

Next the parent must earn the child’s respect.  If the child respects the parent, then the child will naturally wish to please the parent and will naturally accept discipline from the parent.  If the parent has the child’s respect, the parent will not have to use physical force on the child.  But if the parent is unworthy of the child’s respect, then no amount of physical force will accomplish anything other than earning the child’s enmity.

Then consider this that Christ calls all of us His children and He tells us that the leader must be a servant.

John 13:14 "If I then, the Lord and the Teacher, washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. 15 "For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you.

Now go back to Eph 6:4 ....bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.. You are your child's teacher are you not?

Of course, but how does this determine whether or not it is Biblically OK to hit children?

[Bob]

Of course, but how does this determine whether or not it is Biblically OK to hit children?

I didn't realize that the question was if the bible authorized the spanking of children, it does.
I thought the question was on how it is to be done. To spank a child that has no idea why he is being spanked is not biblical nor is it biblical to use it passed the point of it being instruction. Remember that children belong to Christ and what you do to them you do to Him.

I am going to tell you NTChristian that there is no room for political correctness in the Church, as we can see what your kind of PC has done to our schools and nation as a whole. Discipline is not in the vocabulary of the political correct American.

Peace
Bob

[NTChristian]

I didn't realize that the question was if the bible authorized the spanking of children, it does.

You knew what the question was when you read my first post in this thread- you just tried to sidestep it in typical Baptist fashion.

God tells us how to hit adults to punish them- in public before witnesses and with limits as to the number of strikes.  He does not tell us how to hit children, thus God does not intend for us to hit children.  Anyone who hits a child to discipline that child is being guided by man’s standards, not God’s.

The Lord neither commands, nor condones the hitting of children. If your god cares more about how we treat adult criminals than he does how we treat children, then your god is unworthy of recognition, let alone worship.

[Bob]

The Lord neither commands, nor condones the hitting of children. If your god cares more about how we treat adult criminals than he does how we treat children, then your god is unworthy of recognition, let alone worship.

Romans 3:10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE ;

Every man deserves to die. Do you disagree?

Peace
Bob

[NTChristian]

Romans 3:10 as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE ;

Every man deserves to die. Do you disagree?

Peace
Bob

What right or authority does an unrighteous person have to hit a child?

[Bob]

What right or authority does an unrighteous person have to hit a child?

Now NT you are perfectly aware that the Bible teaches the use of the rod.

Proverbs 23:13 Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.

Proverbs 29:15 The rod and reproof give wisdom, But a child who gets his own way brings shame to his mother.

Proverbs 22:15 Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child ; The rod of discipline will remove it far from him.

But you failed to answer my question: Every man deserves to die. Do you disagree?

This is not a trick question NT some people have views much different than I concerning why God created human beings. I have even run across people on the Internet that truly believe in their heart that God is to serve them. So I asked you this question, do you believe that every man deserves to die? Paul used the quote in Romans 3:10 but came directly from the Old Testament where by putting the statement in both the new and the Old Testaments.

Reading your post I also believe that you feel that children are born sinless in the eyes of God. This may or may not be a fact but it is for certain that by the time a child has learned to disobey his parents he is no longer without sin.

I just wonder if you had a child and he continually ran out into the street into traffic and did not respond to your verbal discipline would you go further and use your hand. But I wonder if the child was never disciplined with hand and continued to run out into the street and was killed would you be biblically responsible for the child's death.

I cannot imagine anything so cruel as such a parent that would stand there and allow his child to die.

[NTChristian]

Now NT you are perfectly aware that the Bible teaches the use of the rod.

The Bible teaches discipline.  It does not teach hitting. Only a bully would equate discipline with hitting.  The rod is only symbolic of discipline and protection.  It is the same rod that a shepherd would use with his sheep- and no shepherd worth his salt would ever hit his sheep because it would be too easy to do physical harm to a vital asset.

http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/tenreasons.html

Hitting children encourages them to become hitters themselves in their later years.  Violence begets violence.

Hitting children can also lead to their sexual dysfunction later in life- as the internet porn industry readily illustrates.

http://www.stophitting.com/index.php?page=factsnfiction

Hitting children to discipline them actually has the opposite effect.  The more children are hit for misbehaving the more they tend to misbehave.  And the more someone was hit as a child the more likely they are to hit their spouse as an adult.

Being hit as a child increases cases of depression in adults.



So tell me again how God wants people to hit their children.

[Bob]

The Bible teaches discipline.  It does not teach hitting. Only a bully would equate discipline with hitting.  The rod is only symbolic of discipline and protection.  It is the same rod that a shepherd would use with his sheep- and no shepherd worth his salt would ever hit his sheep because it would be too easy to do physical harm to a vital asset.

http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/tenreasons.html

Hitting children encourages them to become hitters themselves in their later years.  Violence begets violence.

Hitting children can also lead to their sexual dysfunction later in life- as the internet porn industry readily illustrates.

http://www.stophitting.com/index.php?page=factsnfiction

Hitting children to discipline them actually has the opposite effect.  The more children are hit for misbehaving the more they tend to misbehave.  And the more someone was hit as a child the more likely they are to hit their spouse as an adult.

Being hit as a child increases cases of depression in adults.



So tell me again how God wants people to hit their children.

LOL you filterred all your links through the Bible I presume.

Again tne Bible says: Proverbs 23:13 Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.

This is why it is sooooo dangerous to leave the bible for your doctrine. You can not see.

[NTChristian]

LOL you filterred all your links through the Bible I presume.

Again tne Bible says: Proverbs 23:13 Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.

This is why it is sooooo dangerous to leave the bible for your doctrine. You can not see.

LOL you filterred all your links through the Bible I presume.

Yes- with the help of the Holy Ghost.

Again tne Bible says: Proverbs 23:13 Do not hold back discipline from the child, Although you strike him with the rod, he will not die.

You are nothing but a typical Baptist bully.

I was born 10 weeks premature.  I weighed only 3 pounds 6 ounces at birth and had to spend the first 2 months of my life (almost to the hour) before I weighed the required 5 pounds to be sent home.  I grew up malnourished due to parental neglect, and I didn’t weigh 100 pounds before the age of 13 or 14.  Striking me with a rod could have easily broken my back.  If this is what your god commands, then you and he both can go to Hell.

[Bob]

I was born 10 weeks premature.  I weighed only 3 pounds 6 ounces at birth and had to spend the first 2 months of my life (almost to the hour) before I weighed the required 5 pounds to be sent home.  I grew up malnourished due to parental neglect, and I didn’t weigh 100 pounds before the age of 13 or 14.  Striking me with a rod could have easily broken my back.  If this is what your god commands, then you and he both can go to Hell.

So let the truth be told you really do not consider what is in the Bible to be God's word. You choose to ignore what is written and replace it with what you want. You have complained that baptist have said that you are not Christian because of your arguments. I do not make judgments like that but I find it hard to believe that the above statement comes from a Christian heart that abides and God's word.

It is obvious that your parents did not walk with the Lord and for you to turn your hate to the one that gave you life because of what problems man caused you is typical of arminian doctrine.