By the Bible alone?

[NTChristian]

For some time I have been using various internet message boards and contacting various ministries trying to get a better understanding of the doctrine of sola scriptura.  So far I have gotten nothing but confusion accompanies by large amounts of hostility from people that say they are sola scriptura but who won’t make any effort to explain or defend it. 

How can the Bible be someone’s final or sole authority in all matters when:

1. The Bible does not tell us what books it is supposed to have and what books it is supposed to leave out (include the Gospel of Matthew and exclude the Gospel of Judas);

2. The Bible does not tell us what manuscripts we should use to prepare a translation and what manuscripts we are supposed to reject (use Textus Receptus but not Codex Sinaiticus);

3. The Bible does not expressly tell us who is right when two people have different (and often mutually exclusive) ideas about what the Bible means?

[Bob]

And what do you say of the Holy Ghost?

And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

HUMMM the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. now what do that mean?

Peace
Bob

[NTChristian]

And what do you say of the Holy Ghost?

And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

HUMMM the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. now what do that mean?

Most Baptists I have known give short shrift to the Holy Ghost.  They won’t accept the guidance of the Holy Ghost because they don’t wish to risk being told they are wrong.  They want their way rather than God’s way.  I used to be sola scriptura and was once even told by a Baptist pastor that I am a Baptist.  But I now realize that there is much of Baptist doctrine that I don’t agree with, and the hostility I have received from Baptists on the net because I don’t agree with them pretty much tells me that their doctrine is wrong.  I am prima scriptura, not sola scriptura and some Baptists have gone so far as to say I am not saved because of my doctrine. 

I address this in the thread on church autonomy.  My screen display for this website is somewhat garbled- it looks like table cells are out of alignment or like it is when tab positions don’t line up in a typed document.  I didn’t realize what thread I was replying to.  Last week I had the same trouble on another board and thought maybe I had a virus.  So over the weekend I did a factory restore on my hard drive.  Now the other board won’t work at all (I get a Microsoft error with a request that I send an error report). Whatever problem there is, my restore didn’t fix it.

[Bob]

When you use the word baptist please be explicit there are hundreds of baptist denominations and they are all over the map on theology and doctrine.

Sorry I can't help you with Microsoft I am a Mac guy 

[NTChristian]

When you use the word baptist please be explicit there are hundreds of baptist denominations and they are all over the map on theology and doctrine.

Most of the Baptists I have personally known (and the ones that I am related to) are Southern Baptists.  Most of the Baptists I have dealt with on the net have been BBF or IFB.  The BBF/IFB variety insist that they are not a denomination and they generally claim that they are not even Protestant because according to their view of history the Apostles were all Baptist and Baptists have always been in existence.

[Bob]

Most of the Baptists I have personally known (and the ones that I am related to) are Southern Baptists.  Most of the Baptists I have dealt with on the net have been BBF or IFB.  The BBF/IFB variety insist that they are not a denomination and they generally claim that they are not even Protestant because according to their view of history the Apostles were all Baptist and Baptists have always been in existence.

Well, I am a Southern Baptist and dwell with the Holy Ghost. NTChristian I'll make you a deal, you don't tell me what I believe and I won't tell you what you believe, Okay.

Peace
Bob

[Law]

You know the old hymn that goes, "there is power in the word," and there is and there are those that seek power.

Only the Mormon church can interpret the scriptures.

Only the Catholic church can interpret the scriptures.

Only the Watchtower can interpret the scriptures

Only the SDA have the true interpretation of the scriptures.

Only the International Church of Christ has the authority of the scriptures.


John 14:26 NAS
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

[NTChristian]

You know the old hymn that goes, "there is power in the word," and there is and there are those that seek power.

Only the Mormon church can interpret the scriptures.

Only the Catholic church can interpret the scriptures.

Only the Watchtower can interpret the scriptures

Only the SDA have the true interpretation of the scriptures.

Only the International Church of Christ has the authority of the scriptures.


John 14:26 NAS
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

I had Baptist, Lutheran and Catholic/atheist/Catholic grandparents.  But I was not raised in a Christian home, and I have never carried any denominational label.

I am prima scriptura, not sola scriptura.  The Bible is not my sole source of revelation or authority, but neither can any other source of revelation or authority be in conflict with it.

The New Testament clearly indicates that the church has an earthly hierarchy of authority in that individual congregations submitted to the authority of Paul, the Apostles and the elders in Jerusalem to determine Christian doctrine and standards of behavior while the leaders of individual congregations were ordained by Paul, the Apostles and their designees.  All legitimate congregations were interconnected with other because of the authority of the Apostles- which predates the canonizing of the New Testament.  This clearly set up a system of apostolic succession, but legitimate apostolic succession dissolved when the Roman Catholic Church was established (which did not happen before the time of Constantine).  So as near as I can tell every denomination and every congregation I am personally aware of are false.

[Law]

I had Baptist, Lutheran and Catholic/atheist/Catholic grandparents.  But I was not raised in a Christian home, and I have never carried any denominational label.

I am prima scriptura, not sola scriptura.  The Bible is not my sole source of revelation or authority, but neither can any other source of revelation or authority be in conflict with it.

The New Testament clearly indicates that the church has an earthly hierarchy of authority in that individual congregations submitted to the authority of Paul, the Apostles and the elders in Jerusalem to determine Christian doctrine and standards of behavior while the leaders of individual congregations were ordained by Paul, the Apostles and their designees.  All legitimate congregations were interconnected with other because of the authority of the Apostles- which predates the canonizing of the New Testament.  This clearly set up a system of apostolic succession, but legitimate apostolic succession dissolved when the Roman Catholic Church was established (which did not happen before the time of Constantine).  So as near as I can tell every denomination and every congregation I am personally aware of are false.

Yeah I have been following your other threads and I am going to tell you up front that I believe that your prima scriptura nothing more than an excuse to justify yourself in your own eyes.

You can not say that nothing can come in conflict with the bible and then turn around and contradict it. I agree that ALL prophecy and doctrine must be supported by the scriptures. Every congregation will have sinners in it, that is the devils work, but that did not make them false churches in Pauls time and it does not today.

This clearly set up a system of apostolic succession, but legitimate apostolic succession

 I would be interested in seeing where you got this in the Scriptures.

[NTChristian]

Yeah I have been following your other threads and I am going to tell you up front that I believe that your prima scriptura nothing more than an excuse to justify yourself in your own eyes.

You can not say that nothing can come in conflict with the bible and then turn around and contradict it. I agree that ALL prophecy and doctrine must be supported by the scriptures. Every congregation will have sinners in it, that is the devils work, but that did not make them false churches in Pauls time and it does not today.  I would be interested in seeing where you got this in the Scriptures.

In my experience people who follow sola scriptura are really following their own interpretation of what the Bible is, says and means.  They do this to justify their own manmade doctrine.  The Bible cannot exist without other forms of authority because the Bible itself does not tell us what the Bible is supposed to contain. The Bible cannot be our sole source of revelation about God because the Bible itself says there are other sources of revelation: Psalm 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.

It is also my experience that people who follow sola scriptura always get hostile whenever anyone asks them to explain their beliefs when the Bible says I Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.

When someone questions your faith, your only viable reply is to explain your faith in total humility because what you believe may be wrong.

[Law]

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear.

Okay again I would be interested to know where or how you come to this statement.

This clearly set up a system of apostolic succession, but legitimate apostolic succession

As to Psalm 19:1 it refers to Gen 1 all biblical nothing here that is not written in the WORD.


1 John 5:7 NAS
For there are three that testify :

[NTChristian]

Okay again I would be interested to know where or how you come to this statement.

If you are referring to the verse from the Bible, then I obviously got it from the Bible.

As to Psalm 19:1 it refers to Gen 1 all biblical nothing here that is not written in the WORD.

The Word does not explain to us the composition of the moon or the physical nature of starlight or the molecular structure of the water vapor in the sky.  But these things do testify to the Lord.

[Law]

If you are referring to the verse from the Bible, then I obviously got it from the Bible.

The Word does not explain to us the composition of the moon or the physical nature of starlight or the molecular structure of the water vapor in the sky.  But these things do testify to the Lord.

This clearly set up a system of apostolic succession, but legitimate apostolic succession

I would like to know from what and how you come to this conclution.